Monday, November 25, 2013

Miketz - Genesis 41:15-25 - Dreaming of ... Cows and Corn?

15. Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter for it, but I have heard it said of you [that] you listen to a dream and can interpret it."טו. וַיֹּאמֶר פַּרְעֹה אֶל יוֹסֵף חֲלוֹם חָלַמְתִּי וּפֹתֵר אֵין אֹתוֹ וַאֲנִי שָׁמַעְתִּי עָלֶיךָ לֵאמֹר תִּשְׁמַע חֲלוֹם לִפְתֹּר אֹתוֹ:
16. Joseph replied to Pharaoh, saying, "Not I; God will give an answer [that will bring] peace to Pharaoh."טז. וַיַּעַן יוֹסֵף אֶת פַּרְעֹה לֵאמֹר בִּלְעָדָי אֱלֹהִים יַעֲנֶה אֶת שְׁלוֹם פַּרְעֹה:
17. Pharaoh said to Joseph, "In my dream, look here, I was standing on the bank of the Nile.יז. וַיְדַבֵּר פַּרְעֹה אֶל יוֹסֵף בַּחֲלֹמִי הִנְנִי עֹמֵד עַל שְׂפַת הַיְאֹר:
18. And look here, seven cows of muscular flesh and good form were coming up from the Nile, and they pastured in the marshland.יח. וְהִנֵּה מִן הַיְאֹר עֹלֹת שֶׁבַע פָּרוֹת בְּרִיאוֹת בָּשָׂר וִיפֹת תֹּאַר וַתִּרְעֶינָה בָּאָחוּ:
19. And look here, seven other cows were coming up after them, emaciated and of very ugly form and with scrawny flesh; I have not seen such ugly ones throughout the entire land of Egypt.יט. וְהִנֵּה שֶׁבַע פָּרוֹת אֲחֵרוֹת עֹלוֹת אַחֲרֵיהֶן דַּלּוֹת וְרָעוֹת תֹּאַר מְאֹד וְרַקּוֹת בָּשָׂר לֹא רָאִיתִי כָהֵנָּה בְּכָל אֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם לָרֹעַ:
20. And the scrawny and ugly cows devoured the first seven healthy cows.כ. וַתֹּאכַלְנָה הַפָּרוֹת הָרַקּוֹת וְהָרָעוֹת אֵת שֶׁבַע הַפָּרוֹת הָרִאשֹׁנוֹת הַבְּרִיאֹת:
21. And they devoured them, but you would never know that they had eaten them, for their appearance was as ugly as in the beginning; then I awoke.כא. וַתָּבֹאנָה אֶל קִרְבֶּנָה וְלֹא נוֹדַע כִּי בָאוּ אֶל קִרְבֶּנָה וּמַרְאֵיהֶן רַע כַּאֲשֶׁר בַּתְּחִלָּה וָאִיקָץ:
22. Then I saw in my dream, and look here, seven stalks of grain were growing from one stalk, full and good.כב. וָאֵרֶא בַּחֲלֹמִי וְהִנֵּה | שֶׁבַע שִׁבֳּלִים עֹלֹת בְּקָנֶה אֶחָד מְלֵאֹת וְטֹבוֹת:
23. And look here, seven stalks of grain, hardened, thin, and beaten by the east wind, were growing up after them.כג. וְהִנֵּה שֶׁבַע שִׁבֳּלִים צְנֻמוֹת דַּקּוֹת שְׁדֻפוֹת קָדִים צֹמְחוֹת אַחֲרֵיהֶם:
24. And the thin stalks of grain swallowed up the seven good stalks of grain; I told the magicians, but no one can tell me [its meaning]."כד. וַתִּבְלַעְןָ הַשִּׁבֳּלִים הַדַּקֹּת אֵת שֶׁבַע הַשִּׁבֳּלִים הַטֹּבוֹת וָאֹמַר אֶל הַחַרְטֻמִּים וְאֵין מַגִּיד לִי:
25. And Joseph said to Pharaoh, "Pharaoh's dream is one; what God has told Pharaoh what is happening.כה. וַיֹּאמֶר יוֹסֵף אֶל פַּרְעֹה חֲלוֹם פַּרְעֹה אֶחָד הוּא אֵת אֲשֶׁר הָאֱלֹהִים עֹשֶׂה הִגִּיד לְפַרְעֹה:

Guiding Questions:
1. According to Rashi, what is the meaning of Joseph "תִּשְׁמַע" (verse 15) to Pharaoh's dream? How do you think Joseph listened to/understood Pharaoh? What are the different ways we listen? What other "listening" or "hearing" happens in Judaism (think of Jewish prayers)?

2. According to the Stone Chumash (p. 225), what does it mean that Joseph answers Pharaoh in verse 16, בִּלְעָדָי? What lesson might this have for us?

3. Compare Pharaoh's retelling of his dream here to the verses when they happen (41:1-7). What does Pharaoh change in his retelling? Why? See Stone Chumash (p. 225)

4. According to Rebbe Nachman's Torah (p. 294), what does Pharaoh dreaming of the cows represent? What does Joseph advising him to "tax his wealth" symbolize? How do you know you have enough wealth?

5. According to Rabbi Cherie Koller-Fox in Text Messages (p. 43), why does Pharaoh trust Joseph? How do we know what is true?

6. According to Sparks Beneath the Surface (p. 51), Pharaoh's dreams represent a challenge to tell the difference between prophetic vision of truth and self-delusion. According to this commentary, how should we think of our power of imagination?

7. According to the midrash in The Midrash Says (vol. 1, p. 383-384), on what day does Pharaoh have his dream? Why is this significant?
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72 comments:

  1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:42 AM

    For question number two we see that Joseph thanks God for who he is. He also thinks that God tells him what Pharaoh's dreams mean. It teaches us that even the awesomest people and prophets aren't as smart as God.

    by ben and alex

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:45 AM

      IT DOES NOT!! it means that God provides knowledge, not that God is infinitely smart.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM

      God is (probably) more powerful and smart than us, but I don't know if god is as creative and versatile as us.

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:48 AM

      just cause he's smarter than every person doesn't mean he's "infinitely smart."

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM

      Shai is right.

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    6. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:57 AM

      Guys, hes G-d he knows everything and he is more creative and versatile. Do you have the creativity to make the world?
      -Ari and Adin

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    7. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:58 AM

      Why can't it mean that G-d is "infinitely smart?" Alex (or מחמוד).

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    8. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

      We're just trying to say that we don't think that is the meaning of this piece of text.

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    9. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

      well, if i made the world, itd be a LOT more interesting thana it is now... FTL FLIGHT<=, DRAGONS, ORCS, BLASTERS< and MAGIC more interesting, i mean....

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    10. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

      *rolls eyes*

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    11. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:21 PM

      I agree with liora. + if u were God why would you want to destroy the whole world?

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    12. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:25 PM

      you would not have gotten these ideas if it were not for people like Tolkien. Those people were put on that wold by g-d. G-d made the would from scratch. AND g-d is infantry smart because HE IS G-D!

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    13. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

      I don't even read Tolkein!!

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    14. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:30 PM

      u forgot to capitalize G-d. G-d is infantry smart is bad grammar.
      and, Tani, if u were god you would not be creative enough to think of orcs, so u would not create them.

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    15. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 3:43 PM

      But we already know that GD is more powerful then most of us but that is not referents in the text
      Jared

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  2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:43 AM

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:17 PM

      This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:19 PM

      Haha alex ;D

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:25 PM

      well I think that should be true. we should all delete these useless comments

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

      No, Alex just wrote "this comment has been removed by the author." When you actually remove it, it's in italics.

      Delete
  3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:45 AM

    Josh Bermel and Gavi
    We learn that god will give us help and we will never be alone.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM

      Are you saying we always rely on God to make us feel good?
      Danielle, Rebecca

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:55 AM

      ya do we?

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM

      I am also wondering that...

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:07 PM

      I think that when we feel bad we ask god to help us. So in other words yes!

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    5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:09 PM

      But do we rely on God?

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    6. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:18 PM

      We should not count on god to do everything but at least we have a safety net.

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    7. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:20 PM

      I agree. God isn't here to be our servant

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    8. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM

      I agree that god is with us every step of the way even if we don't see god.

      Delete
  4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:46 AM

    According to Rashi, what is the meaning of Joseph "תִּשְׁמַע" (verse 15) to Pharaoh's dream? What are the different ways we listen? What other "listening" or "hearing" happens in Judaism (think of Jewish prayers)?
    Rashi says that the meaning of תִּשְׁמַע is that "You listen to and understand a dream, to interpret it" We listen to each other. We listen to our teachers and peers. We learn from each other and by listening, we make people feel good about telling. We also listen in our prayers in Judaism. Such as in the prayer Sh'ma, which translates to hear.
    Danielle and Rebecca


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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM

      I agree, but in addition to listening we also learn more about the prayers/what the teachers or peers tell us.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

      I agree there are diffrent ways to listen

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:08 PM

      What are the different ways of listening? What is the difference between "kind of" listening, such as perking up when your name is called, or tuning out, or listening to music in the background, or giving someone your undivided attention, maybe even staying up late at night having a conversation, or looking at the emotions on someone's face?

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:09 PM

      Also, for people who are deaf, what is the sign for Sh'ma - seeing as how it can't be about physically listening? What does this teach us about the prayer?

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    5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:28 PM

      People who are deaf use the sign of grabbing their ear to say Sh'ma. We can learn from this that sometimes we need to physically listen to God and others not only spiritually.
      D and R

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    6. AnonymousDecember 1, 2013 at 11:46 PM

      Listening doesn't just mean hearing. It also means understanding which is achieved through interpretation.
      Ben L.

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  5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:46 AM

    From Kol and Giselle:
    We used the commentator Rashi. Rashi answered the question: 1. According to Rashi, what is the meaning of Joseph "תִּשְׁמַע" (verse 15) to Pharaoh's dream? How do you think Joseph listened to/understood Pharaoh? What are the different ways we listen? What other "listening" or "hearing" happens in Judaism (think of Jewish prayers)?
    Rashi's answer was that in addition to Joseph listening to Pharoah's dream, he also understood it. This added to our knowledge because it helped explain that Joseph was so good at interpreting draems, htat he could understand them right away after hearing them.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:50 AM

      but josef said he didn't interpret them, God id and told yoseph what they meant.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM

      i thought just G-d interpreted the dreams...

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:11 PM

      What does it say about Joseph that he doesn't take credit for interpreting the dream? Compare this to how he acted as a boy (last week's Torah portion), when he boasted about his dreams to his brothers? What has changed in Joseph's character now that he is older and has has some difficult experiences in his life, like being sold as a slave and being sent to prison?

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  6. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    Adin and I did question 4 with Rebbe Nachman. Nachman says the healthy cows represent prayers and the skinny cows represent thoughts that make people think their prayers are worthless. As you probably know, Joseph interpreted the healthy cows as seven years of prosperity and wealth and the skinny cows as seven years of famine. The skinny cows eat the fat cows but they stay skinny as ever. This means that there will be seven years of prosperity and after seven years a famine will come and the prosperous years will be forgotten.

    Ari and Adin

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM

      lots of things can mean more than one thing. including lots of things in the Torah!

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM

      I think it is weird how the healthy cows are not skinny. You should be skinny to be healthy.
      Mia

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM

      Not in the cow world. :) :P

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM

      first of all a healthy COW is fat. second, I think that there are a lot more thoughts that prayers don't matter than that prayers are helpful, so shouldn't the fat cows be the bad thoughts?

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    5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:13 PM

      Look at another place in Rebbe Nachman's Torah where he says that the name Pharaoh and the dreams of the cows and the corn represents the constant desire to want more and more and to never be satisfied. What is Rabbi Nachman's solution to this?

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    6. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:20 PM

      It doesn't say fat per-say. but it says muscular flesh and good form and i think for cows, some fat is healthy.
      -Adin

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    7. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:32 PM

      Well, if you're too skinny, you're not healthy.

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    8. AnonymousDecember 1, 2013 at 6:00 PM

      To forget those healthy years are reasonable because we work to improve the challenges of life, not the parts that aren't.

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  7. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM

    Clara and I answered question #1. Rashi says that "Josef תשמע to Pharaoh's dream" means: Josef understood Pharaoh's dream and was able to interpret it. Josef was able to interpret Pharaoh's dream because he was a good listener. We listen by not talking and understanding what the other person is saying. In Judaism we need to listen to eachother a lot. For example, we need to listen to the leaders when we pray.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

      yes, but didn't we learn that it wasn't Joseph, it was God who interpreted the dream?

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM

      I agree that it is important to listen. I think in prayer, God is listening to us, and we are also listening to our own prayer. By listening to our own prayer, we are becoming aware of the world inside of us and the world around us.

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  8. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:51 AM

    Jules & Noah
    Question 5
    Commentator: Text messages
    Pharaoh trusts josef because josef has made a reputation of himself while in jail. Pharaoh thinks that when he hears the true meaning of his dream his heart will know too. Notice how Pharaoh ignores that josef was in jail. Why is that? Because his wine man and courtiers think josef has the spirit of G-d in him.
    Noah & Jules

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  9. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 11:53 AM

    Question 3: We didn't find any difference. that he was desperate for a good answer so he told the truth, afraid to get a false answer.
    By: Shai and Tani

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  10. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:00 PM

    Our commentator is Rashi. Our question is question no. 1 which asks what does it mean for Joseph to listen to Pharoah's dream? What are other examples of listening spiritually? Rashi answers by saying that the word tishmah means he listened and interpreted. Rashi also says that God will answer and give interpretation to Joseph to tell to Pharoah. Prayer is another example of listening. During the prayers, we sing and praise god, ask god for resources and strength, and thank god for our stuff and talent. During silent prayer, we try to meditate and listen to God's response. God also responds while we're not praying but we might not always love God's response.
    By Ben, Shua, and Tubes

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  11. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:03 PM

    Yosef and I did question one and found that Joesph found the meaning to Pharaohs dreams. And he might of done this by the torah







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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM

      But the Torah had not yet been recieved, so how would he have followed it.

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:07 PM

      I agree with liora.

      Delete
  12. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    We were answering question five, using Text Messages and the commentary of Rabbi Cherie Koller-Fox. "Pharaoh trusts Joseph because he has a good reputation as a dream interpreter. More than that: Pharaoh believes that these dreams come from his own mind. He knows that when he hears the true meaning of the dreams, his heart will know it....
    "Pharaoh didn't dwell on Joseph's prison attire or on the fact that he was a Hebrew. He judged him by listening closely to the words Joseph spoke."
    Rabbi Cherie Koller-Fox is saying that the things that get in the way of truth or prejudice and peer pressure. We know what is true by feeling it and hearing the tone of the voice of the speaker, whether it's sarcastic or from the heart.
    From Liora, Itai, Jared and Reb Mez

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:11 PM

      where would he get a reputation? he was only known as a dream interpreter by 1 living man--how could pharoah trust one man when everyone else he believed didn't get it?

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

      What tends to have more influence on you: a bunch of people you don't trust or one person who you do? Who would you listen to as to someone else's reputation?

      Delete
  13. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    Ruby & Leora
    We looked at question 7"According to the midrash in The Midrash Says (vol. 1, p. 383-384), on what day does Pharaoh have his dream? Why is this significant?'' The midrash says that pharaoh had his dream when it was Rosh Hashana. Rosh Hashana is when "God determines the fate of the entire world, and decrees famine or surplus for each country." We think that this is not a coincidence .This is significant because it is the beginning of the year, and God is planning what is going to happen next. God is warning Pharaoh about the famine, and this is when Joseph is going to begin to rise to power.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:12 PM

      I just had this funny vision of sorts of God sitting up in the sky planning exactly what's going to happen to us. :)

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    2. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:14 PM

      if that is when God decides the fate of the world than why did he choose for the next FOURTEEN years on that one day.

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    3. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:15 PM

      So if this all happened on Rosh Hashanah and everyone knew that this is when God decides about famine or surplus - then Joseph being able to interpret the dream seems a lot less impressive.

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    4. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:15 PM

      Maybe because if you start something, it's good to finish it, like if you start making microwave popcorn, but you never take the popcorn out of the microwave.

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    5. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM

      I like Shai's question - God wasn't just deciding the next one year - God was deciding the next 14 years!

      Delete
  14. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM

    Lili and I answered question 2 which asks According to the Stone Chumash (p. 225), what does it mean that Joseph answers Pharaoh in verse 16, בִּלְעָדָי? What lesson might this have for us? In the Stone Chumash it says that Joesph will not except credit for his abilities and that they are not supernatural but god gave them to him. Joesph did this even though it potentially put him in danger because if Pharaoh thought there was nothing special about him then Pharaoh might send Joesph back to prison. We gained the lesson that no matter what abilities you have in life our what success you have it is all because of god. So we should never get cocky because it is not because of us and god could always take the abilities away from us.

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    1. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM

      I disagree. If I teach myself to play the guitar, that was my doing, not God's.

      Delete
  15. AnonymousNovember 25, 2013 at 12:25 PM

    We are answering question 7 using The Midrash Says. The Midrash Says says that Pharaoh had his dream on the night of Rosh Hashan ah, and that on Rosh Hashanah, God determines the fate of the entire world and declares famine or surplus. We thought it meant that God could start the seven years right away, since Rosh Hashanah is the beginning of the year. It's kind of a judgement of what's going to happen in the future of Egypt.
    Liora, Itai, Jared and Reb Mez

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  16. AnonymousDecember 1, 2013 at 5:58 PM

    Micah
    Commentator: Rashi
    Question: What is the meaning of תִּשְׁמַע in Pharoah's dream?
    Answer: Rashi claims that the meaning of תִּשְׁמַע is to understand. He means by to noting that to understand is to listen to the language of the dream and process it correctly.
    Extra thoughts: Jews listen to many other Jews for help. For example, you may not just go to your Conservative Rabbi but you may also go to the Orthodox Rabbi.

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